Hi guys,

G-Man, nice to see an entry from you...

Your term 'analog distortions' would be worthy of a catchy 'book title' for mine. There have been some others lately, like 'frames'. Another that occurs to me is 'foreground'. People seem to 'foreground' different entities, ideas, ideologies, cults, cultfigures etc.

I have quite a fascination for Vincent Van Gogh. I like Psychology but I don't think about his neurotic or psychotic characteristics much. I think more in terms like the phrase from Don MacLean's song: '...but I should have told you Vincent...this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you'.

Van Gogh seemed to 'foreground' what most painters put in the background (like individual flowers, or peasants with the village in the background).

I once asked Ivan if I could use the 'Humancafe' logo and name to start up a coffee shop chain. It would be in the Antipodes so no real corporate threat there. I had an idea of something like a Greenwich Village cafe, or a French river-side cafe, which has some copies of the great works on bookshelves and feeds a few beverages to thoughtful folks as they engage in friendly (well not always) dialogue. A place where the 'Vincents' might come in from the cold.

There's one thing that happens when one engages in a good conversation...we lose track of time. But then when we catch the bus back to reality we often have to apologise for losing track of time.

How ironic that when we engage in a conversation where we lose track of time, we suddenly find ourselves conversing about whether time has properties? What are the properties of property? Would it be more meaningful to ask whether humans can actually 'own' things? Can things actually 'possess' their properties?

The theory of everything, when I start to think about it, will have to embrace the non-existence of time at the Universal level. But it will also have to embrace the fact that the human mind, which is also a part of nature (we are children of the Universe), has this ticking clock that allows us to universalize (globalize - need a distinction there) such a concept as time. Think how much resource and effort has gone into the creation of calendars, sun-dials, the craftsmanship and skill of Swiss watchmakers. All an 'essential' part of the universe.

I like Physics too (in answer to Claude), but I always preferred Biology at School, and then probably Chemistry because Chemistry seemed to fit with Biology better than Physics did. Since my main interest was History and French, it seemed that Biology may be the best way to begin to understand how the French could produce such an abomination of a human being as Napolean.

I think the reason I like Physics today is that there are popularizers who have been mathematicians, then Physicists, then Humanists. These popularizers (like Bohm, Hawking, Davies, Capra), seem to have an inkling that people need some reassurance from Science. I think part of that reassurance comes from the need to have our biology taken into account into any future Theory of Everything.

Well, there's a wet brain fart... I still rank Buddha as the 'Duke Kuhanimoku' in the 'theories of all brain farts' category.

G-Man... it's intriguing as to the actual nature that each person's journal takes. It seems yours is oriented to the Scientific side. Mine is unashamedly associated with ethical 'things'. Others have journals that they have to keep under lock and key (like the guy in 'Lolita'). Still all in all it seems to be important for me, and my recovery. When my hard disk started to fail, my journal files were the first to be copied to the floppy disks. Then came my University essays, then my Kant file, then Jung.

Regards,

Dave.

Just on the subject of 'analog distortions'... I guess that might suggest it's converse state of an 'analog tortion'.

I thought about the use of 'obverse' here but decided to use 'converse' based on Webtsers definition:

con·verse2 Pronunciation Key (kn-vûrs, knvûrs)
adj.
Reversed, as in position, order, or action; contrary.

n. (knvûrs)
Something that has been reversed; an opposite.
Logic. A proposition obtained by conversion.

[Latin conversus, past participle of convertere, to turn around. See convert.]

If bridges are built to resist 'tortion' or to allow for tortion, then the achievement of analog tortion would be something like 'agreement' would it not?

Dave.

TIME AT THE HUMANCAFE

Hi Dave, and All,

I've been thinking of your 'Antipodes' as the 'opposite of something', you being on the other side of the globe from some of us 'down here' north of the Equator. Some sort of global conversion of bipolar ideas? Of course, Agreement can be found even in the ether of great distances, like a universal gravity tying together like minds through cyberspace. I remember fondly my time in New South Wales (1989), especially sitting at a cafe overlooking Byron Bay, watching dolphins play over a cup of java. Or sipping organically grown wine, generously poured, in the vineyard country. If I were to sit at your 'Human Cafe', where conversation flows over prodigious cups of foaming cappuccinos, without time... I would be pleased to reminisce.

When I first envisioned the HumanCafe, I wanted to launch a site where like minds could meet and mutually reach for a higher consciousness. Since at the time we were only a year away from the Millennium, I thought this would be an especially nice way to celebrate, with minds reaching out to minds, over free flowing channels of ideas, in search of Mind. That was why I included Habeas Mentem (Lat. to have the mind), so we could explore with more ways to see the reality, as a continuum of our minds within the interrelated framework of a reality tied into itself, and one not bound by the restrictive chains of accepted doctrine. With Habeas Mentem, I wanted to offer one more perspective of that illusive quality of life in which we all share, and one that renders us conscious, a universal Mind. This idea exchange was first launched as the People's Book 2000, which yielded some interesting entries, but as we came in on the Millennium, it was closed at the end of 1999, and archived, to make way for the new Forum. This Forum was then launched as an ongoing and permanent journal of our ideas, the one on which we now meet.

A universal Theory of Everything? That too, and more! I am always pleasantly surprised to see the ideas that flow from the writers into the HC Forum, as I am sure the readers are sometimes surprised to see their own ideas expressed. This is the nature of such free exchange, that we mirror one another, and become pleasantly surprised to see that others are there too with our thoughts, and we are not alone. Which belongs to whom? Does it matter? No. Whether pro or con, all ideas are hereby welcome, since they are then the conscious expression of 'who we are'. What surfaces from our discussions, in my view, is that we are not minds living in isolation, detached from all the other minds around us, but rather we are part of a vast continuum of a global Mind, of spiritual as well as rational expressions, and that from this continuum we then draw our ideas. Yet on a bigger scale, we are also part of a universal Continuum, one which hugs each and everyone of us so closely as to be almost taken for granted. From those two spheres of influence, we then form our individual ideas which, when taken in toto, are a growing expression of our individual and collective consciousness. This was what I wanted to do, and thus I am most pleased. A free exchange of our ideas, in a spirit of agreement as opposed to confrontation, that is the real motif at the Human Cafe!

Where do we go from here? I suspect that we are headed towards an all encompassing Theory of Everything. Maybe this will take more time than we care, but an idea that can interrelate all the knowledge of our physics, mathematics, chemistry, biology, spirituality and philosophy; it might yet yield something that may be closer to the organic whole of what is our universe, a One that is endowed with Life. I'd like to give it a name in advance, if I may: I'd call this 'Theory of Everything' a new 'Bio-Physics'. I envision our understanding rising to a point where we are able to incorporate reality as it incorporates itself, which means that it is not merely an 'inert' reality of universal physics, as is our present understanding, but rather envisioned as an 'organic' understanding of how the universe works, how it creates Life within the Cosmos. We live in a physical universe that is biologically active, and our physics needs to reflect this living reality. We will need some powerful brain power to get to that new level of Truth, but I believe it is on the path of our human evolution as conscious beings. And thus, we are all welcome to partake in this great new philosophical adventure.

So enjoy the 'Cafe, get another cup of steaming java, and lift up your vision to where all things are possible, even with contradiction, for there, in the intuitive realms of Mind, even that may be closer to the Truth. It is all up to how the universe 'sees' itself, and we are then the fortunate participants in this marvelous and miraculous, infinite unfolding drama of Life.

Peace and Joy. Enjoy!

Ivan

Editor, HumanCafe

Hi Dave,

You write:

"If bridges are built to resist 'tortion' or to
allow for tortion, then the achievement of analog
tortion would be something like 'agreement' would
it not?"

I think of 'agreement' as a balance, a kind of
self stabilizer that finds a mean, a point of
contact where stability exists. So in 'torsion'
it would be more like the stabilizer bars under an
automobile used to counterbalance the swaying
motion of the vehicle over 'chaotic' roads, or the
stabilizer fins on large ocean cruisers to counter
the distortion motions of ocean waves. Nature
throws variables and 'dis-tortions' our way in
what appears to be chaotic and random sequence,
though in fact they are not, merely interrelated
in ways we don't understand; we, on the other
hand, with our minds, counter this randomness to
give it order, to find agreement within the chaos,
and thus exercise our 'torsion' control with our
consciousness.

The question then is: Why do we need to find
agreement? Is it somehow inherent in our
emotional makeup, or is it demanded of our reason?

Or do my dogs seek agreement, even if they are not
consciously doing so?

... gotta take them for a run down by the river,
they're soliciting my attention, to which I must
agree!

Later, Ivan

Hi Ivan,

I had made a bit of a mistake in linking 'distortion' with 'torsion', or so I thought.

On looking at websters, a distortion is a statement which 'twists the facts'.

However, when looking up 'torsion', I found that it did derive from the Latin 'tortio' - 'to twist'.

Not sure where this leaves us though. Is a 'conflation' a 'distortion'?

You are right about the proper goals for habeus mentem. However I'm currently reading about the Pareto Principle (the 80/20 rule), which contends that nothing in either nature or human affairs is ever in balance. Does that mean we are simply trying to minimise imbalance?

Dave.

Hi Dave, All,

I think we can live with a 'distortion' of "torsion" as long as we stay on track in search of meaning in an illusive reality. Will think of this some more...

On the other hand, I did have a brain F___t, which may be interesting to contemplate: Is 'coercion' a function of a desperate need for 'agreement', to the point where we are sometimes willing to twist and force to achieve it? .. Just a thought.

Still thinkin',

Ivan

Anthem to the Resurrection of Our Being Human.

In the Winter of late 1998, when Humancafe opened as a universal exchange of ideas, for how to make a better world for the New Millennium, the idea was to bring together minds from throughout the globe in a spirit of exploration. What has evolved in both the People's Book 2000, now archived, and the succeeding Forums is a spirit of wonder, of questions and ideas, of love and concerns for humanity, and indeed of diverse philosophical explorations into where we as a human species need to go from here. What has impressed me most is that this was done in a spirit of non confrontation, even in the face of the horrific tragedies of these past three years; tragedies of human bombs that haunt us still, and test our human will throughout the planet, in particular in what had been the birthplace of three of the world's great, but tragic, religions; and rather done in a spirit of cooperative ideas where we all contributed our constructive thoughts for a common goal. I think that this goal is that of a resurrection of our understand of our being, the who we are, and how to protect that being from trespass, from damage and coercion, from conflict and war, so that we remain free to express the better parts of ourselves, now and in the world of our children, and their children. And that is also the future of philosophy, as it is evolving here in these forums, that we are the explorers, the finders of how to clothe our being inside greater truths, those that liberate and enliven and place us on the paths to where we can become who we truly are, as human beings.

Thank you to all who had contributed, and to those who had read in silence, for we are all part of that marvelous resurrection, that revelation of the Truth about ourselves. Please feel free to write your ideas, for all ideas are welcome. This is the Who we Are.

Happy Easter, Passover, Salaam, to All. Peace

Ivan

In honor of All who had written:

Dear Everyone,

After much contemplation, upon reading all entries which had made their way into the Peoples Book 2000 and the Humancafe Forum, I felt the need to condense over three years worth of thinking into a concise statement as a synthesis of all the ideas and feelings expressed. Same as written in Habeas Mentem, each word chosen carefully, the end result is one of human interaction through agreement rather than coercion. I think this is a central theme of the Humancafe to date. So many thanks for all your thoughts and written contributions. Keep them coming, posted or emailed, all ideas are welcome! --Ivan

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Humancafes FORUM -Bulletin Boards April 20 - 04:33 am

Quote:

Seek to do with agreement, choose consciously to avert coercion, resist trespass, be tolerant of one another; then there is hope for humankind of a lasting, greater world Peace.

It is in Peace, this agreement, that we as conscious beings, the Who we are, can bring it all to the Good.

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A special thanks to my friend Wayne, for making this Forum at Humancafe possible. God Bless.

5 POINTS OF BEING HUMAN.


TOLERANCE:
People have to have the right to be wrong.

FREEDOM:
To have the right to be Who you are, when you consciously do not trespass on another.

TRUST:
Faith that the other approaches you in a spirit of agreement, rather than coercion.

FAITH:
To trust in a Being that is greater than yourself, and that it is much stronger than fear.

LOVE:
The ultimate Law of all living Being, that all of existence is alive with Love. This is always true for all time, even for every atom of our being.


These are the 5 Points that had evolved in my mind over the decades of my consciousness, that can be counted on one hand, and that represent the most important points of what it means to be human. Together, they are the symbols of the new human being, one who is conscious.

Also these 5 Points may represent my most heartfelt contribution to our wonderful efforts of dialogue at HumanCafe. I hope if offers something concrete on which we can build a meaningful future for our dear planet.

I should also add that these are not my ideas, for they have been expressed universally through millennia by all humankind.

Ivan Alexander

A Brief on Scriptorium:

SCRIPTORIUM

"Scriptorium" is set on the Isle of Iona, Scotland, where Saint Columba of Ireland had established a monastery abbey from which he would convert the Pict people of Scotland from heathenism to Christianity. There was a successful scriptorium which, around 800 AD, wrote the Book of Kells, perhaps the most famous illuminated manuscript ever of the four Gospels. The story is about one of the monks of the scriptorium, named Aedan, about 24 and of royal birth, and the other brothers who work with him. The abbot is Father Cellarch (a real person of the time) who lovingly oversees their work.

While the scribes are working on the final book, the Book of John, pilgrim penitents come to the abbey, as they often do, and of these is the Pict king Blachmac, and his beautiful young daughter Osla. They are newly converted Christians, and the king is an avid supporter of the famous abbey. In the story, the scribes discuss their work as they write the passages of John, and we see many insights of who they are, and how they think and feel. Osla, who is about 18, is lettered and takes an interest in the work being done by the scribes, takes a liking to Aedan, and he to her, and thus is born a fine friendship, where he even shows how to write the formal script of the manuscript, which she takes to easily. The other brothers, Ronant the illustrator, and Ion, Fiotan, Enon and Eogan, all enjoy the company of Osla and her cousin Dolina. Because there had been rumors of renewed Viking attacks up north, Blachmac leaves his penitence, but leaves the women at the abbey for safekeeping. And thus the friendship between Aedan and Osla, though he has taken vows of celibacy, flourishes. She proves her worth when a Viking ship attacks the island monastery over high Easter, and saves him from the attacking norseman headed by the norse prince named Vodin. His kingdom is the east of Caithness, on the other side of Scotland from Blachmac's. It so happens that Vodin had courted her and knew her, though her father, and mother who is of viking descent, said Osla could not possibly marry him, since he would grant her hand only to a Christian prince. Thus, for a time, the abbey is safe from further attacks.

But the raids continue in the north, though now by other viking clans, and Osla returns to her kingdom on the west coast of Caithness, north west Scotland near Skye. She writes letters to Aedan, who learns that Osla is in danger of being accused of witchcraft and complicity in murder in what appears to have been a heathen human sacrifice. The evil instigator for this is a visiting bishop, Ailebe, whom she had encountered while he passed through Iona on his way north, and who has strange repressive ideas about women, as well as signs of sexual perversion. To make matters worse, Vodin, who now courts the bishop and is inquiring about becoming Christian, has renewed his petition to king Blachmac, and his wife Thora, to have their daughter's hand in marriage. If he accepts baptism, he then may marry Osla, who is very distressed by this. She asks for Aedan's help, though she knows her love for him, and his for her, are futile and impossible, as he is a monk. Father Cellarch, the wise abbot, encourages him to go north and see what he can do to help her, explaining that if it is God's will, Aedan may renounce his vows, which Aedan refuses to consider. Ronant, his scribe friend of the scriptorium, who is fond of Dolina, goes with him.

When Aedan sees Osla again, they both confess how much in love they are, and how desperate their situation is, in part because he has taken celibacy vows, given his word to God, though he is of royal blood, and she because she is being promised to Vodin. The evil bishop sees her marriage to the norseman Vodin as a coup, because it brings together the two Christian kingdoms of the north into one, thus consolidating his power. In his implied threat over Osla also hangs the accusation of human sacrifice done with her knowledge, and possibly implicating her brothers as well, and thus making them guilty. Aedan has to solve the mystery, as to who it was who committed the sacrifice, and his break comes when he once again encounters a druid bard whom he had met and befriended on this trip north, named Moluch, who knows of the sacrifice and tells him why this happened. The man killed was of Blachmac's kingdom, but the killer, so it seems, is from Vodin's kingdom. And thus goes the mystery, as to who and why was this murder committed, and for what motive. Bishop Ailebe is not clean handed in this either, and instead presses hard to convict one of Osla's brothers, whom she cares for dearly, named Kilian.

The resolution of all this is expressed in the mid point of the story, when Aedan says to Osla "Trust in God." And indeed the mysterious powers of our two lovers, though theirs is a frustrated love, find the hand of a greater force influence their lives, and bring about an outcome that is as surprising as it is wonderful, for indeed, the hand of God had a play in this resolution. For we see in the end how love conquers evil and violence.

But the ending is a mystery which I here will not reveal.

The Book of Kells is finished at the scriptorium of Iona, and for safekeeping finds itself sent to Ireland, to be kept away from the Viking raiders, though even there the story does not end, and it ultimately finds its way to Kells, where it was preserved until now. This beautiful manuscript is now housed at the library of Trinity College in Dublin.

The End.

(To see sample chapters, please go to Humancafe Forums=>The Book of Life=>Works in Progress at: http://www.humancafe.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?84/102.html )

Subject: Life Explained.


It all makes sense now:


The Explanation of Life: On the first day God created the cow. God said,

"You must go to field with the farmer all day long and suffer under the sun,

have calves and give milk to support the farmer. I will give you a life span

of sixty years."

The cow said, "That's a kind of a tough life you want me to live for sixty

years. Let me have twenty years and I'll give back the other forty." And God

agreed.

On the second day, God created the dog. God said, "Sit all day by the door

of your house and bark at anyone who comes in or walks past. I will give you

a life span of twenty years."

The dog said, "That's too long to be barking. Give me ten years and I'll

give back the other ten." So God agreed (sigh).

On the third day God created the monkey. God said, entertain people, do

monkey tricks, make them laugh. I'll give you a twenty year life span."

Monkey said, "How boring, monkey tricks for twenty years? I don't think so.

Dog gave you back ten, so that's what I'll do too, okay?" And God agreed

again.

On the fourth day God created man. God said, "Eat, sleep, play, have fun,

enjoy. Do nothing, just enjoy, enjoy. I'll give you twenty years."

Man said, "What? Only twenty years? No way man. Tell you what, I'll take my

twenty, and the forty cow gave back, and the ten dog gave back and the ten

monkey gave back. That makes eighty, okay?" "Okay," said God. "You've got a

deal."

So that is why for the first twenty years we eat, sleep, play, have fun,

enjoy, and do nothing; for the next forty years we slave in the sun to

support our family; for the next ten years we do monkey tricks to entertain

our grandchildren; and for the last ten years we sit in front of the house

and bark at everybody.

Life has now been explained

--------------------------------------------------------

As told to:


Manu Hinduja

GSR Services, Inc.

8071 Slater Avenue, Suite 205

Huntington Beach, CA 92647

714-375-5290 x 205 ( phone)

714-375-5293 (fax)

manu@gsrservices.com

"Non-Anthropopathism" says Kanzi.

I believe animals have feelings and ideas, not in the same way we do, but in their own way. This is not anthropomorphism or anthropopathism, where human attributes are attached to non-human beings or things, any more than saying that a two year old child or a deaf-mute does not have feelings and ideas, though they may not know how to express them verbally. What makes this interesting is that there is increasing evidence that primate mammals, at the very least, have the ability to form words, or word substitutes, that express their feelings and ideas. I suspect this will prove true for other animals too, though they remain speechless. Perhaps those ideas are no more developed than those of a very young human infant, they nevertheless feel as tightly as some human adults. When you consider that animals, of all species, have the ability to learn from their elders, and then use this knowledge to survive, or interact amongst themselves socially... Well, I do not wish them to project their feelings unto me, but it would seem that their feelings are not humanly originated anthropopathism, but original thoughts and feelings to themselves.

See Kanzi in BBC news Ape 'learns to talk' ...and I, a human, can too!


Ivan

Parrot's oratory stuns scientists
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3430481.stm

Chalk one up for the parrot with an inventive sense of humor! ...Aawk, polly wana cracker?

:-)

go for the Blog

http://topicexchange.com/

Click Here: Heart and Soul Animal Sanctuary

Natalie is a very special person, spiritual and dedicated to the teachings of St. Francis. I'm sure you would like her, especially if you are animal lovers too. In the mountains at Glorietta, New Mexico, near Santa Fe, she founded this sanctuary for animals, rescued from the 'death chambers', and then adopted around the nation.

http://www.animal-sanctuary.org/

Ivan